Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

Vitaly · 2018-04-24 12:37:41

Hello, everybody!

I wonder if the whole chapter https://synopse.info/files/html/Synopse … ml#TITL_90 is worth to be deleted?
I spent a lot of time studing docs and forum and finally coudn't even get the SMS compiler, which can work with samples, delivered from mORMot.

igors233 · 2018-04-24 13:33:13

Current (alpha) version of SMS doesn't work with mORMot but version from year ago is running fine (I use it myself daily).

Vitaly · 2018-04-24 13:46:30

igors233 wrote:

Current (alpha) version of SMS doesn't work with mORMot but version from year ago is running fine (I use it myself daily).

Great! Can you name the version, please? I tried 2.2 (07.04.2016) - got same errors as in alpha or beta 3.0.

Last edited by Vitaly (2018-04-24 13:47:23)

igors233 · 2018-04-24 14:03:16

It's 2.2.2.4543, I think that's latest official release version. To be honest I haven't tried with latest mORMot, there's been some breaking DocVariantData changes and I don't have time to upgrade now since app is changed daily. Anyway, perhaps these issues are because of that, try again with older mORMot (mine is from Sep. 2016).

Vitaly · 2018-04-24 14:44:28

Yes, I'm using fresh mORMot (and I'm affraid that I can't downgrade it so much because of using fresh Zeos). SMS 2.2.2.4543 - got same errors in SynCrossPlatformREST.
Nevertheless, thank you very much for your response!

igors233 · 2018-04-24 16:20:31

> Yes, I'm using fresh mORMot (and I'm affraid that I can't downgrade it so much because of using fresh Zeos).

Are you having a Delphi server side built in mORMot and client in SMS? I think you could make it work by using latest mORMot for Delphi and older one for SMS, authentication and interface based request should work OK.

> SMS 2.2.2.4543 - got same errors in SynCrossPlatformREST.

Which ones, perhaps they're some easy to fix ones?

Vitaly · 2018-04-24 16:59:46

igors233 wrote:

Are you having a Delphi server side built in mORMot and client in SMS?

I have FPC server and several FPC desktop apps with ORM access. But I have no any mobile client yet.
That is the thing, I chose mORMot to migrate to, because I supposed (while reading docs) that it would be easiest way to cover mobile needs for my users (unfortunately I have no any valuable experience in that field). Nowadays I've finished redevelopment of my project, i've got much more possibilities and speedup with mORMot, but still can't make my mobile app

igors233 wrote:

I think you could make it work by using latest mORMot for Delphi and older one for SMS, authentication and interface based request should work OK.

That's a great idea! I'll definitely try it as soon as possible. Thank you!

igors233 wrote:

> SMS 2.2.2.4543 - got same errors in SynCrossPlatformREST.
Which ones, perhaps they're some easy to fix ones?

The same as in https://synopse.info/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4318 . Starting from:
Syntax Error: const parameter cannot have a default value [line: 804, column: 31, file: SynCrossPlatformREST]
on the line:

function Add(Value: TSQLRecord; SendData: boolean; ForceID: boolean=false;
      const FieldNames: string=''): TID; virtual;

igors233 · 2018-04-24 18:01:57

> I have FPC server and several FPC desktop apps with ORM access. But I have no any mobile client yet.
> That is the thing, I chose mORMot to migrate to, because I supposed (while reading docs) that it would be easiest way to
> cover mobile needs for my users (unfortunately I have no any valuable experience in that field). Nowadays I've
> finished redevelopment of my project, i've got much more possibilities and speedup with mORMot, but still can't make my mobile app

Depending on what kind of mobile app you're looking, Elevate WebBuilder may be a good choose as well, it has a more finished UI controls to start with. For mobile where you want a complete control and you're not affraid of doing more work SMS is best.

> The same as in https://synopse.info/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4318 .
> Starting from: Syntax Error: const parameter cannot have a default
> value [line: 804, column: 31, file: SynCrossPlatformREST]

Yes, SMS doesn't allow consts for such params, you can try changing that directly in the generated unit.

Vitaly · 2018-04-25 13:18:12

Glad to confirm that with old mORMot 2016/09/01 (https://synopse.info/fossil/info/ddc1dc391a173bfc) SMS examples work fine. Also tried 2016/09/15, but failed.
Now I can begin diging in mobile development. Thanks again, you are the savior of my professional enthusiasm

igors233 wrote:

> Depending on what kind of mobile app you're looking, Elevate WebBuilder may be a good choose as well, it has a more finished UI controls to start with. For mobile where you want a complete control and you're not affraid of doing more work SMS is best.

I like control and more work was never problem for me, if the result is worth it. So, I hope that SMS is rather good for my start

warleyalex · 2018-04-25 13:20:31

Smart Mobile Studio is cool and I love the DWScript based Object Pascal language. However, some ideas like Raspberry PI/iOT, Smart Desktop/Amibian.js, sounds like FUD to me. It seems that SMS is running too many races at once, we don't need stories about Smart potencial implementation wishes, but real working features. We do not need to know what SMS "can do", but what SMS "does".

I'm quite confident our mORMot suits better with the free open source Pas2JS FPC based project.
We have full code completion on the Lazarus IDE. About generating cross-platform client code for Pas2JS should not be so much difficult. A little issue is the missing Anonymous function missing feature. ...but some features like like generics, attributes and anonymous functions aim to get these items done throughout this year (2018). Certainly, Pas2JS is moving in faster steps. Whatsoever I've been thinking to follow SMS integration pattern, I think it is technically feasible and implement the client wrappers is certainly the way to allow safe and efficient access to a mORMot server.

There are a lot of possibilities, in the near feature, I hope we can use more than 80 components with the Pas2JS/Lazarus, for instance, we can use the TMS Web Core components, TMS FNC Components with Lazarus IDE.

In my experimental projecthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y6JoWUFEXw I've already converted some TMS Web Core visual components to be used directly on the Lazarus IDE!

Pas2JS + mORMot + Lazarus = I love free stuff. No restrictions, no limits.

ab · 2018-04-25 13:59:13

Personnally, I follow warleyalex opinion at 100%, in this matter.
I hope someone will soon start a true OpenSource project using Pas2JS with Lazarus, and some OpenSource components, instead of having to buy TMS WebCore... and Delphi.

edwinsn · 2018-04-25 14:03:46

@warleyalex,
I will the same about SMS although I haven't used it in deepth, but I watch the Delphi Facebook group, and I tried it earlier this year and the last year, it's cool, but it's not very stable and the document is lacking. On the other hand, I also tried Elevate Web Builder, it's looks much feature-complete and professional, and most importantly, it's very well documented.

I really have high hope on pas2js + TMS Web Core + FNC.

Do you know where to watch all the pas2js news?

pvn0 · 2018-04-30 08:26:37

warleyalex wrote:

Smart Mobile Studio is cool and I love the DWScript based Object Pascal language. However, some ideas like Raspberry PI/iOT, Smart Desktop/Amibian.js, sounds like FUD to me. It seems that SMS is running too many races at once, we don't need stories about Smart potencial implementation wishes, but real working features. We do not need to know what SMS "can do", but what SMS "does".

It's FUD because SMS is a side project. For two years it was abandonware until recently when they got some outside funding, apparently subscriptions from users were not enough to keep interest (they had no problems dangling that carrot tho). They claim 3.0 will be released soon with actual proper documentation this time (unlike some years old unfinished book that they still push as being accurate). I do hope the 3.0 release is everything they've been so optimistic about.

Junior/RO · 2018-05-01 17:41:32

Pas2JS is a project with scope at UniGui level? I don't know nothing, will check today.

warleyalex · 2018-05-01 23:40:06

The Pas2JS with Delphi/TMS it's a bit pricey!

1. TMS WEB Core:= 295 EUR introductory price
2. TMS WEB Studio := 595 EUR introductory price (TMS WEB Core + TMS FNC controls + TMS XData)
3. It can be installed in Delphi XE7 to Delphi Tokyo 10.2.x

We proposed to Pas2JS team another "open source" alternative using with the Lazarus IDE as base library.

...just analyzing the TMS Web Core emitted javascript output, and and quite a bit of effort, doing some reverve engineering I believe I've created a clone of the following components:

TLabel, TEdit, TButton, TComboBox, TMemo, TListBox, TSpinEdit, TCheckBox, TPaintBox, TImageControl, TPanel, TSplitter, TGridPanel, TSpeedButton, TToolBar, TDBEdit, TDBLabel, TDBSpinEdit, TDBMemo, TDBNavigator, TMessageDlg, TClientDataSource, TClientDataSet.

     ,  ,  , , , 
    <(__)> | | | 
    | \/ | \_|_/ 
     \^  ^/   | 
     /\--/\  /| 
    /  \/  \/ |

- there are enough similarities that it's clear that they have the same source. I didn't illegaly copied the source code anyway, since TMS didn't release the product yet; some reverse reverse engineered the exact Pascal code from the TMS JS code, pas2js compiler will create code that looks exactly like the TMS JS code. The Pas2JS team think it could be treated as disassembling instead of reverser engineering. "It's far too near a copyright violation, AKA it was merely disassembled, using this as a base for a library would definitely
give bad publicity", said Pas2JS team.

Any idea about this - the code copyright "javascript piracy"?

edwinsn · 2018-05-02 03:46:08

@warleyalex, I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that if you completely implement all the code for your library, it's definitely legal.

AOG · 2018-05-02 04:56:07

@warleyalex
I might have enough time to help you with your efforts.
But important: could you give some more details about the opinion of the Pas2JS team on this. Are they opposed or have reserves ?

ab · 2018-05-02 09:23:35

This is why I like very much the obfuscation feature of the DWS/SMS compiler.

@warleyalex
An Open Source alternative, even with a smaller component set, but using Lazarus, and mORMot for the server part, could be groundbreaking!
It may target not only Delphi users, but any developer, willing to write Web (or Mobile/PhoneGap) apps with a fullly integrated source, and an easy to understand strongly-typed language: modern object pascal.

warleyalex · 2018-05-02 11:13:26

AOG wrote:

@warleyalex
I might have enough time to help you with your efforts.
But important: could you give some more details about the opinion of the Pas2JS team on this. Are they opposed or have reserves ?

Alf,

We proposed to Pas2JS team (Michael Van Canneyt / Mattias Gaertner) an "open source" alternative with the Lazarus IDE as "base library". The Pas2JS team have reserves on this.

Mattias Gaertner wrote:

> About reverse engineering:
> If someone reverse engineered the same behavior, using different code,
> it is probably no problem.
> If someone reverse engineered the exact Pascal code from the TMS JS
> code, pas2js will create code that looks exactly like the TMS JS code.
> Then I guess it depends on the judge what to believe. It could be
> treated as disassembling instead of reverse engineering.
>> Of course, if it turns out you copied code from TMS, that code cannot be made public.
>> But at first sight, it does not seem to be so.

>The code looks as if someone has used a JS to pascal converter
>- AKA it was merely disassembled.
>I'm not a lawyer, but for my taste this is far too near a
>copyright violation. Using this as a base for a library would definitely
>give bad publicity.
>from Mattias

this file contains WebLib and some demos but using runtime components only.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vvg0e086hsmh9 … n.rar?dl=0

Alf, maybe you also has ideas.

AOG · 2018-05-02 11:52:20

@warleyalex

>I'm not a lawyer, but for my taste this is far too near a
>copyright violation. Using this as a base for a library would definitely
>give bad publicity.

The above sounds bad.
Pas2js has been sponsored work AND has been open sourced. So, care is needed.

But I think that Lazarus integration is a very logical (and very much needed) next step.
And, as Ab already stated, pas2js + Lazarus + mORMot will be groundbreaking !

It would therefor be good to have full cooperation of Mattias and co already beforehand.
Would you mind asking him/them how he/they see a future integration of pas2js into Lazarus.

About your code.
As I do not have TMS, I cannot judge any potential copyright violation.
But again, we should not cause a fight about this. Much better to have a good start in full agreement with the pas2js team !!

My 2 cents.

edwinsn · 2018-05-02 12:16:05

I think you guys have some misunderstanding here, pas2js does integrate with Lazarus, pas2js is an integral part of FPC/Lazarus from the very begining, see (http://wiki.freepascal.org/lazarus_pas2js_integration) and here (http://wiki.freepascal.org/pas2js).

And I believe that TMS at the end would provide Tms Web Core support for Lazarus, because the FNC framework is already supporting Lazarus (I own a license).

Last edited by edwinsn (2018-05-02 12:19:31)

edwinsn · 2018-05-02 12:22:48

On the other hand, "pas2js (used in the front-end, which is the web browser) + Lazarus + mORMot" is **already** there, what's lacking is a UI widgets library similar to the TMS ones based on pas2js.

Sorry if I'm the one who's misunderstanding the conversation here.

AOG · 2018-05-02 12:44:59

> Sorry if I'm the one who's misunderstanding the conversation here.
I think I misunderstood (also) !
But thanks for clearing things up !!

> what's lacking is a UI widgets library similar to the TMS ones based on pas2js.
This should be done in full cooperation with the pas2js team, to prevent any future problems.

ab · 2018-05-02 12:54:22

@edwinsn I guess we knew that pas2js is part of FPC.
What is indeed missing is the UI part, i.e. TMS Web Core.

I asked explicitly about Lazarus support on TMS blog, and they answered that they "may" do it, but it was not yet planned.
Their FNC compatiblity is great, since it allows to have complex components like a planner or a ribbon.
I guess that some part of the price asked by TMS is that it is based on https://www.jqwidgets.com : $399 for 1 developer and unlimited number of projects.

Perhaps a new Open Source project, with partial integration with the LCL, for basic components, may be possible - but with some work!
And we would rather keep it away from any commercial component, for sure.

From my side, I would rather use such a solution for Mobile applications.
Since we have the LCL which is already cross-platform, and downloading and running a rich LCL app is faster and more efficient than running a complex web app.
And for web sites, the mORMot MVC system, with Mustache templates, is a good option - more standard and easy to deploy/debug/test than those "web apps".
I agree with the fact that SMS is going into too much directions at once. They should focus on the mobile app development - as pas2js may help us.

The fact that it has been sponsored doesn't change pas2js licence terms, so it is free to be used in any Open Source project with the same dual license than FPC.

Junior/RO · 2018-05-02 15:22:57

I like very much the integration possiblities with webassembly

rdevine · 2018-05-03 15:19:22

The FNC components are very cool. I'm developing a fairly complex desktop app and I'm careful to inherit-out my visual components and keep the UI separate from my code (I build almost the entire UI in code). Using FNC I got the original VCL version running under FMX Windows in a couple of hours, and an additional couple of hours to get it running on Android. I think they're worth the money and have high hopes for TMS Web - the ability to cover that number of platforms is very impressive. I'm also an SMS subscriber and the new version is very good, but I think they've missed the boat.

edwinsn · 2018-05-03 16:53:07

@rdevine,

I own FNC UI Pack too, but haven't start using it. I bought it to see it's Lazarus compatibility, although the drawing is not very top-notch, I'm OK with it's ability.

Would you elaborate a little about "...I'm careful to inherit-out my visual components..."? I myself want my new GUI programs to be able to **easily** to switch to Lazarus in the future with FNC Pack. thanks.

One the other hand, I still prefer EWB over SMS if (I mean, if) they are the only choices.

rdevine · 2018-05-03 21:24:26

@edwinsn I just create subclasses of the components I use, sometimes so that I can easily swap-in components from different vendors (which then just involves changing the unit name in the uses section), and sometimes to get matching properties for Vcl and FMX components. E.g. I wrap TEdit with IFDEFs for Vcl/FMX and create common property names when I need it. I wish EMB had standardised the property names across the two platforms! FMX on Windows is a dead-loss but I've found it ok on mobile, so for desktop I focus on the Vcl and have recently purchased CrossVcl for OSX.

I was an early adopter of EWB but dropped it after a year. It's rock-solid but the OP transpiler still doesn't handle interfaces or generics. Of course DWScript and pas2js don't yet handle generics but it's at least on the roadmap. EWB is another product that could have been miles ahead if they'd focused on client-side functionality - but a lot of resource was spent building server-side functionality to help sell their database products. They should have just used mORMot :-)

edwinsn · 2018-05-04 04:30:07

Thanks the very helpful explanation, redevine!

And this statement is very **insightful**: "EWB is another product that could have been miles ahead if they'd focused on client-side functionality - but a lot of resource was spent building server-side functionality to help sell their database products. They should have just used mORMot :-)".

ab · 2018-05-10 13:43:38

Did anyone try http://wiki.freepascal.org/lazarus_pas2js_integration ?

EMartin · 2018-05-10 16:07:36

I tried it using fpcupdeluxe but fpcupdeluxe settings could not download it (url is wrong) and after the install when I compiled a simple program "hello" several errors with NativeInt (or something like that) were reported.

On the other hand, will be very good that pas2js support ES6 javascript.

Last edited by EMartin (2018-05-10 16:08:55)

pvn0 · 2018-05-11 07:44:49

Junior/RO wrote:

I like very much the integration possiblities with webassembly

And where exactly will you get this integration with webassembly?

ab · 2018-05-11 07:55:44

webassembly is something diverse than pas2js or SMS, which both compile to plain JavaScript, not this pseudo-asm.

Leslie7 · 2018-07-27 21:42:53

So now that SMS 3.0 is out ... will the mORMot support it?

Is this version finally a viable option for web/mobile development in itself, without any other js UI library?

Last edited by Leslie7 (2018-07-27 23:45:29)

mORMot Open Source

#1 2018-04-24 12:37:41

Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#2 2018-04-24 13:33:13

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#3 2018-04-24 13:46:30

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#4 2018-04-24 14:03:16

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#5 2018-04-24 14:44:28

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#6 2018-04-24 16:20:31

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#7 2018-04-24 16:59:46

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#8 2018-04-24 18:01:57

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#9 2018-04-25 13:18:12

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#10 2018-04-25 13:20:31

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#11 2018-04-25 13:59:13

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#12 2018-04-25 14:03:46

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#13 2018-04-30 08:26:37

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#14 2018-05-01 17:41:32

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#15 2018-05-01 23:40:06

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#16 2018-05-02 03:46:08

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#17 2018-05-02 04:56:07

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#18 2018-05-02 09:23:35

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#19 2018-05-02 11:13:26

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#20 2018-05-02 11:52:20

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#21 2018-05-02 12:16:05

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#22 2018-05-02 12:22:48

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#23 2018-05-02 12:44:59

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#24 2018-05-02 12:54:22

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#25 2018-05-02 15:22:57

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#26 2018-05-03 15:19:22

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#27 2018-05-03 16:53:07

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#28 2018-05-03 21:24:26

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#29 2018-05-04 04:30:07

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#30 2018-05-10 13:43:38

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#31 2018-05-10 16:07:36

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#32 2018-05-11 07:44:49

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#33 2018-05-11 07:55:44

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

#34 2018-07-27 21:42:53

Re: Smart Mobile Studio supported or not??

Board footer